What Should We Do for Secular Friends Who Have No Needs?

I led a couple workshops (on all this stuff--did I need to include that qualifier?) at a Harvard IVCF conference (alums of their grad ministries returned for the event) this weekend. 

The question that came up the most was: All of my friends are Stage 3--confident secularists who present themselves as blissfully happy with no needs.  How can I offer faith to them?

I'd be interested how you'd respond.

Though I'll skew your responses by giving a taste of how I responded.  I said that, in my experience, argument got nowhere in those cases.  A common response in those settings would be for the friend to say that they're as good a person as you are--they care for the environment, recycle, judge the right people, etc. 

To my mind, the best bet was through prayer for them--or, for the adventurous, prayer and fasting for them.  God will have to change their hearts.  And of course they have needs.  It's the human condition to have needs.  The only issue is if God will open their eyes and hearts to those needs and to the possibility God could address them.

One response: It sounded like I was saying that they only way they could experience God was through bribery--he'd do things for them once they experienced needs.  But clearly God wants to call people to himself through many means.

I'll let you answer that one, if it grabs you.  And feel free also to answer the "How do you offer spiritual help to your secular friends with no overt needs?" question.

Comments

[Paul]

Love this question. Being intrigued by marketing in general...I consider marketing to be about addressing needs. So a similar question in my mind is if my transportation needs are met with my awesome Ford Pick-up than would I ever consider buying a sweet renovated '66 corvette?

I would, but why? Because as everyone knows cars (or anything) are valued for more than just their basic function. I've experienced emotional value from the purchase of tangible goods (and don't think that isn't different than way back).

God is just one offering among lots that promise good stuff. So it continues to be experience (or a believable promise of positive experience) that transforms...a purchase decision.

I've seen prayer to be powerful...and sharing my own testimony too (Rev 12:11)

[Aleric, Visigoth Invader]

Step 1: continue to invest in friendship. Step 2: repeat step 1. Step 3: there is no step 3.

[Otto]

I think, if your friends have no needs, then you haven't found out enough about them!

We live in a society, though, were it's pretty easy to live with the illusion that we can manage our lives without any help from God. We've got (relatively) good health care, fully stocked supermarkets, a reliable car to get us around (a lot of us, at least). We really don't need anyone else to have a pretty good life, at least as far as our bodies are concerned. It's pretty easy to put up a façade that we've got it all together.

[Vinceation]

Great topic!
I suppose you can't OFFER faith to them. Jesus said he came for the sick, so there has to be some sort of self-identification of need before that offer can mean anything. But you can talk about your positive experience with faith in light of your self-identified needs. In my experience, that's met with "it's great that that's working for you", which, at the very least, is a picture of good faith for someone to store in the back of his/her brain.
As Dave said, of course the day will eventually come when they recognize an unmet need because that is the human condition. Then perhaps an offer can be made. And then perhaps various pictures of good faith may surface in their brain.
I suppose, from a bounded-set, modernist perspective, waiting for that day can feel agonizing or dangerous to a caring, Jesus-following friend because "today is the day of salvation" and "what if they die tomorrow?" But, from a centered-set perspective, I guess this is just life in the luxurious, developed, full-of-pleasures West.

I'm reminded of something C.S. Lewis wrote that I have mixed feelings about. He said that in a pre-developed world Christians preached the cure for society's obvious ills, but today in our developed world Christians have to preach society's prognosis before we can preach the cure... Thought provoking. Not sure if it's really helpful to show people why their lives actually suck and that they just think they're happy. It seems most people do eventually come to crises moments when they ask the deeper questions. Perhaps the additional role today for Jesus-followers is not preaching the prognosis but being patient and willing to wait while people sort through the complexity of life in the developed world so they can get to those deep, foundational needs only Jesus can meet.

[Heather]

Read this to dwell more on potential psychological needs (from neuroscience research): http://www.strategy-business.com/article/09306?gko=5df7f

The article refers to psychological needs for Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness and Fairness.

I've thought a lot about the findings presented here and have come to the conclusion that Jesus not only meets these needs for us but also wants us to meet these needs for other people. For example...

Jesus ...
gives us status in him, e.g. royal priesthood (status)
mediates our certainty by being "in control" (certainty)
offers us freedom (autonomy)
solicits eternal relationships (relatedness)
loves everyone equally (fairness)

AND

Jesus wants us to ...
consider others better than ourselves/serve not be served (status)
feed the poor, heal the sick, meet the physical needs of others (certainty)
set the captives free (autonomy)
love one another, meet together, spur one another on toward love and good deeds (relatedness)
make no distinction between the rich and poor (fairness)

Maybe there is something in here that is relevant. What needs might this reveal in your friends?

[Doug]

How about simply extending the extravagant blessings of God to those friends who aren't experiencing it? In particular, I've found that unexpected gifts speak loudly, and repeating that to the point of inquiry makes for some interesting conversation.

The issue for me is not so much "what can I say to make you believe?" but more like "what can I do to please and surprise you?".

Note to self: do this more often, since God does this to me often.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=809190857]

"All of my friends are Stage 3--confident secularists who present themselves as blissfully happy with no needs. How can I offer faith to them?"

Isn't this almost along the lines of a non sequitur? What relation does the evidence of faith have to do with the appearance of happiness or whether it looks like they have any needs?

I'm sure the actual question that people are looking for an answer to is, "why would the 'guy who has everything' need Jesus to improve his already great life?" If we are going to be honest, "offering faith" to that guy who has everything is most decidedly not going to improve their life in their eyes. Why would someone take on the yolk of a life of faith when they can conduct their life on their own terms, live life for today, and without the burden of treating others with justice and mercy?

All of those things are only appealing if they are ever presented in the context of the future. Most Stage 3 people I have met are so concerned about their here and now, that little regard has to be given for tomorrow. And without the future, "thy kingdom come, thy will be done" has little meaning, even to you and I.

So...how can we accomplish this? There are already some great ideas mentioned, but to add to them:
1. Ask for discernment - it's almost always the person who presents themselves as blissfully happy who is hiding the deepest hurts.
2. Invite the supernatural - when that person, or their daughter, or another of their loved ones encounters a desperate physical need in their life, it can be surprising how quickly they'll accept the introduction of faith through prayer and healing
3. Consistency - Believers should not be expected to be perfect, but, we are. Seeing hypocrisy is too often the death knell to faith for the person opposed to it.

Easy, right?

[steven hamilton]

i can only speak for myself in this, although the general thrust of many of the comments i agree with; you offer yourself...as their true friend. you offer your presence as you walk with them in life. listen and you will hear. watch and you will see. and all of that goes both ways, because i find that the mask of blissful happiness eventually comes off, and if you have proven yourself a true friend, trust will have been garnered. just like a farmer in the field, you can tend to the crop, but you cannot make it grow naturally (lose the miracle-grow)...just be around them and witness what God does in simplicity...

[Jason Refsland]

While in college I began attending a large church and I didn't know anyone there. I wanted to find some friends. One day I recognized a young guy from my within the company I was working for. We struck up a conversation and he invited me to a party. The party turned out to be a pitch for a pyramid scheme. I felt tricked and betrayed.

What happens when you have befriended a Stage 3 "needless" person, but then an opportunity arises to share your faith and they all the sudden connect the dots that you have been trying to convert them this whole time and then feel betrayed? (I apologize for the run-on sentence)

[bsergott]

This is a fascinating conversation topic! I just have two things on which I want to comment. First of all, I agree with Jason. I think all too often Christians will have relationships with an agenda. I don't know how many times I have had an old friend call me and ask me to lunch to catch up on old times, only to have them pitch Amway to me. It is a total bait and switch, and it is entirely insincere. That is what friendships-for-the-purpose-of-getting-them-saved really are - they are a classic Amway sales pitch. People can smell an agenda from a mile away. I think we need to let go of all expectations in our friendships. I am a believer and a pastor, and that is core to who I am, so of course I share me with my friend, not to convert them or show them how miserable and pathetic their lives really are. Rather, I share that, because I want them to share what is important to them with me. I find when I go into relationships with no agenda and no expectations, God will use me to plant seeds that HE will then grow to maturity.

That leads me to my second point. Why do we followers of Christ look at all people as being pathetic and miserable. If they appear happy and well-adjusted, they must be repressing their true dysfunction. There are some people who were raised in good homes, have never felt the sting of death or loss, have solid family lives, good jobs, good moral sense, and they even work for social justice to make their world a better place. Why do we have this pathological need to tear that all down and expose the central pain? If we dig and find nothing there, we tend to make something up.

I agree that they need Jesus. Everyone needs Jesus. However, I think the better approach is to celebrate their happiness and all of the blessings they have been given. Love them, pray for them, and when they do encounter pain, they will seek you out for support and prayer. You are the only one who didn't try to sell them anything. I think the focus should be to give glory to God for all that they have been given. Constantly point them to the realization that all of that great success has come from a source, and that source is God. Then, you will have teachable moments, where the door is open for you to talk to them about moving from happiness to joy. They will desire to have a joy that goes beyond circumstances. That is the true Gospel message, not that we are all garbage deep down inside, but that we are free to have life and joy to the full! That is attractive to anybody.

[Chip Decker]

Good question Jason. This is why it is crucial to be their friend without an actual agenda. Sure you want them to know Jesus (you wouldn't be a good friend if you didn't) and you're going to be honest and up-front about your relationship with God, but you respect their free-will and your friendship with them is not conditional. I have many friends who don't walk with Jesus and of course I challenge them on this front but my friendship with them is not dependant on when, how, or if they make clear moves towards Him. (Of course I love it when then do!)

[Chip Decker]

Jumping off on the Lewis idea of prognosis and then blending that with the marketing concept of creating a need where one did not previously exist...

Someone may feel that their quality of life, love and relationships are pretty good, until they meet someone who's experience of the same far exceeds their own. I mean, I have to imagine when Jesus was on the scene in Galilee, there was something about the LIFE this guy had that caused people, who may not have sensed something lacking in themselves beforehand, to realize the subpar existence that they were grinding out. So I'm in agreement with the friendship approach because not only can you be around for when crisis moments do happen, your friend will also sense the higher quality of life, love and relationships that you have and therefore begin to feel a desire for it where previously no such desire existed.

[Brent]

This post relates to the visceral reaction I always have whenever I hear people saying that people need Jesus in their lives to be truly happy.

I sometimes want to shout, 'Are you kidding? Do you know how much 'happier' I would be if I'd never met Jesus? I could be blissfully, ignorantly enjoying my life! No existential angst! No constantly fighting my own judgments! That would be super!'

Seems to me Jesus is a pretty bad self-help tool in a lot of ways. The selling point on Jesus, to me, isn't that he'll make you'll life better. He might just make it kind of miserable and might even lead you down a road where you lose it altogether.

I think I don't follow Jesus because I want him, but because he wants me. He doesn't want to meet my needs, he wants to show me that what I think my needs are, aren't. Often I find the most valuable things I get from this journey are things I didn't know I needed and certainly didn't know I wanted.

[Chip Decker]

Wow Brent - I don't want to clog this up with my own comments but I have to say I found this to be a very powerful post. I actually copied the text of your comment and I'm going to send it out to friends of mine via email. Obviously there is a different definition of happiness going on here. (For the joy set before him he endure the cross. Blessed are (happy are) those who persecuted...) The world is defining happiness as ease, convenience, surface pleasure, absence of pain, etc. The King is defining happiness differently for sure but I love how you expressed this!

[Ryan NYC]

Bill, I LOVED your post.

[Holly]

I find it helpful to let OTHERS be a friend to ME. Maybe they ARE happier than I am, and maybe several aspects of their lives are going better than mine are. In that case, why not be honest by allowing myself to be vulnerable? Then, as God works in my life, they'll be able to see real change in me.

I used to be in situations where it was suggested that if we weren't trying to evangelize our secular friends, we weren't doing it right. But I don't like having that kind of agenda, and I find one of the surest ways to ditch the agenda is to ditch my pride and whatever "I'm so happy" facade I might be carrying around. I was as good at putting up that facade as any secularist (assuming they have a facade at all). I'm not saying I'm going to go around complaining all the gime, but I do say good riddance to that facade!